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tlambert
Posts:2
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Posted:05/03/2007 10:48 AM |
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Pastor Brent announced last night that there will be no more Wednesday service after May. The term he used was to take off a "season", whatever that means. He said that this decision was made after much discussion with the other pastors and the elders.
I'm confused by several things:
- We just had the members dinner where it was announced that we were getting better financially.
- I saw an item in the bulletin saying that the BRCC Office has new hours, Mon - Thurs, which means they are NOT OPEN on Fridays any more (it used to be open until 11:30 on Fridays).
- Now BRCC is eliminating the Wednesday service
- Brent also mentioned BRCC wants to open a new "satellite" church
This all sounds to me like we are NOT in good financial health, or the focus of the church is shifting.
Is this church just all about putting on a big musical production on weekends to bring in the "unchurched and with no relationship with God"? Is the goal to mimic "Sister Act" and just get "butts in seats"? Do we bring in the unchurched and bring them up to Step Two and then cut them loose?
Without a Wednesday service for advanced teaching for those of us that are FDFC, where do we we go for continuing and advanced spiritual growth? I expect a Pastor to lead that teaching. Do we now have to find another church?
I would ask that you please post this topic and get some feedback from BRCC members about how THEY feel about ending the Gathering. I would expect you would hear an uproar. Maybe I'm wrong - maybe this church is all about the unchurched and not the FDFCs.
Please do NOT interpret my dismay as an attack on the weekend service format. I love the worship music. But the Pastor's message is usually superficial because it is aimed at the unchurched. I'm just looking for something more - music or not. Members - please respond!
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| slightfoot (guest) |
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Posted:05/03/2007 11:29 AM |
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I, too am confused as to why.
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brunette37
Posts:3
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Posted:05/03/2007 4:30 PM |
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 I am also VERY disappointed to hear about the "gathering" being cancelled. I also agree about what the first person said about the status of our church financially. I also attended the dinner and heard everything that was said by Pastor Dave and Pastor Brent. I was also under the impression that we as a church had a "voice" on what happens, and should decide as a family. Why has this been decided without the approval of ALL BRCC members, and ACTIVE participant within the Church? I think it is VERY wrong to decide things without an overall vote from everyone. How would it feel if the goverment decided who are next President would be without taking our votes and allowing us to decide? This is wrong! The church does NOT seem to have a problem requesting an EXTRA offering when they need money, or asking for assistance towards a specific need or program, so why decide on something so large without the consent of ALL church members? Just a question????????
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| Aloha (guest) |
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Posted:05/03/2007 7:58 PM |
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I think " season off "is referring to the summer season, they want to take a summer break and then I guess start Wed. service in the fall again.
The office hour change.. I am also thinking is just " summer hours" and will resume regualar schedule in the fall again.
I am new to this church family/community. I hope you continue feeling open to talk and ask questions. Many of us have the same question.
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gfike
Posts:242
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Posted:05/04/2007 12:20 AM |
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Before emotions run completely out of check and speculations grow too wild, let me plead with all to "be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger" (from James, as those who have attended the Gathering for the past several months might remember). Decisions, such as this one, are not made lightly; they are never made outside the attention of the elders who were elected by the members of the church to approve such measures. I encourage those of you who are members to examine our by-laws, as you will see this was done properly, according to established guidelines. No one is pulling a fast one. These questions are good, but please be careful not to make quick judgments. You are welcome to contact your pastors with your concerns, and we will try to answer them as much as we can to your satisfaction. Thanks for your patience.
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| brent saathoff (guest) |
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Posted:05/04/2007 10:38 AM |
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When I announced our break from The Gathering, I told the audience that the decision had come after a lengthy season of prayer (over a year) by me, the pastors of BRCC, and the elders. During that time, we also had multitudes of conversations with attenders and members of BRCC trying to determine what settings would help us disciple believers well and help our people grow in their faith. We had also sought the wisdom of other ministry leaders outside our church.
The desicion to take a break from The Gathering is unrelated to finances. In fact, we are on target to meet our budget for this year. Besides, that's not how we make decisions here anyway. We make decisions by prayer and consensus of leadership, like the believers did in the first church. We seek to grasp the Spirit's leading in all matters and move forward with faith.
Please know that this decision was particularly gut-wrenching for me personally. I started and created The Gathering 8 years ago and have led this ministry that entire time. But certain ministries have a season and serve certain purposes. I believe at times a season ends and it is appropriate to celebrate that season and move on to a new season. We are trying this break for a season and will continue to pray about what we will do in the coming months.
I encourage you to trust us as we move forward to help people become fully devoted followers of Christ. And be careful about making inflamatory assertions without a full understanding of the matter. Even if one disagrees with a decision, it is not right to question the motives of people without talking to them.
I leave you with these words from Jesus: Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called "Sons of God". Blessings.
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| Agreed (guest) |
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Posted:05/04/2007 5:18 PM |
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Although, I would have to agree with Pastor Brent and Pastor George about mostly everything I would also like to see the first part of the question answered: "Is this church just all about putting on a big musical production on weekends to bring in the "unchurched and with no relationship with God"? Is the goal to mimic "Sister Act" and just get "butts in seats"? Do we bring in the unchurched and bring them up to Step Two and then cut them loose? Without a Wednesday service for advanced teaching for those of us that are FDFC, where do we we go for continuing and advanced spiritual growth? I expect a Pastor to lead that teaching. Do we now have to find another church?"
I too have left the church on Sundays wondering why I went to church in the first place other than the great music. I don't seem to be getting a strong message either. The only time there is an in depth message is when we go on Wednesdays and now there is no Wednesday so I guess we will be attending a Sunday morning concert weekly with a couple of short stories to keep us happy. I hear about how much we are growing so much but all we are doing is getting more people in and not helping the people that we already have further their walk with Christ. I would hate to have to find antoher church because I love BRCC and the people and the staff but it seems like the only way to furtehr strengthen my commitment in Christ is to find somewhere else to go.
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Randy_Neal
Posts:19
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Posted:05/04/2007 5:57 PM |
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A book that has helped bring many people to Christ is entitled "Purpose Driven Life." Though I didn't agree with everything in the book, the very first line was right on target. It simply says "It's not about you." Before assuming that the canceling of the gathering is an attack against your spiritual learning atmosphere, maybe one should pause to consider what higher calling God has in your life. If going to the Gathering every week from 7:00 to 8:45 is something that has been penciled into your busy schedule for months or even years now, consider using that time to put into practice some of the things you have learned both there, on Sundays and in your daily God Times. Could God have opened up a big block in your schedule to serve at the Strong Foundation? Or share a meal with someone who is far from God? Maybe even attempt Starbucks evangelism? We definitely no longer have the excuse that we don't have the time to do some of the things God has already called us to do. Often we look at what "the church" can do for us instead of thinking "How can I be the church?" Consider that this can be a great opportunity to practice what we've been taught.
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| Aloha (guest) |
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Posted:05/04/2007 8:20 PM |
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Thank you for the reminder "Be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger."
Thank you to Mr. Brent for sharing with us how much time, effort and heart you all put into the events of the church.
Mr. Randy Neal mentioned a book Called " Purpose Driven Life" I am always on the hunt for a good book to read.
Which brings up a question. Does our church have a book trading shop or resale book shop? I have been to other churches where they have a used book store. People can donate their books and find good used books at second hand price?
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bfairchild
Posts:9
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Posted:05/05/2007 2:05 PM |
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I must admit I was surprised to hear the Gathering would be taking a season off. While I was not in the service, when I my wife told me of this and how it was explained, I did not have as strong a reaction as I'm sure many are. I don't know about other regular attenders, members, FDFC who have been around a little while, but I can feel pretty confident in what I am about to say.
After having been raised in a denomination where it was seemigly all about who's who, who wore what to church, and "did you hear about so-and-so's son, husband, wife, daughter, etc..." I feel I am part of the most authentic and biblical Christian community around. I'm sure there are others in the city that exist, but this happens to be the one our family found and connected to. And from the beginning the Pastors, especially Brent and his family, made us feel welcome in the church and in our neighborhood. I have come to know most of the pastors and staff through serving in many of the ministries. One thing is for certain: I trust all the pastors' heart, their motives, and their intentions. They have been models to me of surrendered obedience to the will of God, and they have been mentors to me in my desire to serve God in a similar way.
They deeply care about people, and how they can continue to meet the needs of a diverse community of believers. When I have had concerns with some of them they listened and engaged fully with me rather than talk around the issue. Almost a year ago our small group had concerns over the overall direction of the church and Brent came to our small group and openly answered questions honestly.
Those who are concerned about "being fed" I would challenge to see this perhaps as an opportunity to join or perhaps start a small group. We have been a part of the same small group for over 5 years, and this is where we have grown the most. This is where we have entered into the lives of several other families - shared their happiness, hurts, crises, etc. So as one of the earlier posts suggested, this may be God's way of freeing up time to serve elsewhere and "be the church." There certainly is no biblical direction or requirement to have a mid-week service, so perhaps some of the same type of deeper bible teaching could be accomplished in a small group setting.
I trust the decisions and the heart of our pastors, because I have been blessed to get to know most of them and I know God is bigger than them, this church, and my opinions, but they are obedient regardless of whether we understand or even approve of what their obedience brings. God calls us to the same obedience. Maybe those of us who only attend on Wednesdays now have an opportunity to be an example to those seeking on the weekends - to "be the church to them." Perhaps this is a season for us to allow God to teach us to trust the leaders he's blessed our community with, and raise up other emerging leaders that would fill the gap on Wednesdays and continue to lead other believers in teaching, worship, prayer, and service.
Change often stinks, but there's often joy and growth coming that we can't yet see.
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| Phillips365 (guest) |
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Posted:05/06/2007 8:55 PM |
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I also was concerned when I first heard that the Gathering was not going to meet "for a season".I have been a member of BRCC for a number of yrs. and the Gathering has been a great source of ministry to me personally many times. However I feel like I know the Pastors at BRCC well enough to say that they are very trustworthy and they are fully devoted to following the Lords will for BRCC. Sometimes we have to trust those in leadership rolls as they are able to see a more complete picture than those of us who are following.Right now I think we need to unite and pray for our pastoral leaders and the elders as they seek to find and follow Gods will for BRCC. Let us use this time to practice patence and to learn to be still and listen for Gods voice
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| suebeelou (guest) |
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Posted:05/07/2007 3:50 PM |
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I absolutely agree with TLAMBERT's feelings. We are new to SA and have been searching and praying for a church for a year, only recently we decided that BRCC was the place for us largely because of Wednesday night services and Pastor Brent's teachings. The worship is good but I do wonder about the Sunday messages being mostly geared toward the "unchurched."
A mid-week service plays a big part in our entire families spiritual health. I'm not opposed to Pastor Brent specifically taking a break if that is what the Holy Spirit is leading him to do, however I do think the church needs to keep Wednesday night going and we should all be praying for a new leader to take over.
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| slightfoot (guest) |
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Posted:05/08/2007 9:03 PM |
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I want to be open to what the pastors are saying, and I want to be patient to see how this works out. But honestly, I keep coming back to one thing: Would God want a church to end Wednesday church service? I know we are to trust the pastors and elders, but we are given discernment, too, and this is where I am getting "stuck". I am praying to have the right attitude and see this as the pastors see it, but I just keep picturing ramifications - people showing up to lights out and doors closed on Wednesdays. There have been good posts here about maybe this frees us up to do other things on Wednesday nights. But how many will be that disciplined? How many people will drift - maybe someone who is a "baby Christian" who was vulnerable in the first place. I could see if Wednesdays had very few attendees, but there are many there to worship on Wednesdays! For me, all this will do is lead me go find another church on Wednesdays. I love BRCC, but if God opens the door for me to find another church via "new" Wednesday night services, I would follow to somewhere new. Maybe more discussion will take place tomorrow night, but it sounds like the decision has been made. We all need to continue to pray for our pastors and BRCC.
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| RegHop (guest) |
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Posted:05/09/2007 10:34 AM |
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Yes i too will be missing the gathering. I turly feel that God is working through Pastor Brent. So i can't understand why he would stop. I know when God works through us it can be hard on us because not many understand or hear, but we still have to keep on going. Right? To build the FDFC people.  I guess i will just have to trust Pastor Brent on this.
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| soldier4Christ (guest) |
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Posted:05/09/2007 9:59 PM |
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I know some people may be upset, but things are not always as they seem. When something like this happens, it's for a reason and although we may not understand it, we need to trust God and obey those who are in authority.
Honestly, I loved the Gathering, but maybe this is a time where God wants YOU to start feeding yourself in the word. Pastors are there to teach, lead, and guide, but after a while, shouldn't the responsibility of learning fall on the individual? You have a bible and you have the Holy Spirit, I think it's time people stop relying on Pastors to feed them all the time. Stop looking to them to give you a word and start getting your "word" from the Lord. The church exists to equip you with what you need so you can start ministering to others. Besides, when you look at the early church, they got together to fellowship and pray. Why not seek out a group so that you can mature in your faith with other believers? I have heard of cell groups where they Lord has moved powerfully among his people because they gathered together for worship and prayer.
I am not saying we do not need pastors, we obviously do, but I think we should stop relying on them way to much to do what we should start doing ourselves.
I don't think we should attack them at all since they are servants of the Lord and you need to be very careful when you speak against God's chosen. Read the account of Moses and how the people grumbled against him.
I think we should be supportive but to also pray for the direction and guidance of the church. Maybe God wants his people to PRAY in order to bring something else about. You cannot criticize your pastors and your church if you are failing to pray for them. You really shouldn't criticize at all...
I encourage you to pray and ask God not only about BRCC, but how this change will affect you personally since you are a part of the body.
Blessings to all.
P.S.
And to those who think that BRCC has a watered down message, I am 27 years old and I did not hear the gospel until I was 25. It's a simple message, but you'd be surprised how many people need to hear that simple gospel truth. If you want an indepth study, pick up your bible, get a concordance and other study materials, and get with a group of people and seek out the scriptures. If you want revelation, the Holy Spirit is right there to help you. Also, you may be surprised that though the messages are simple, how many people FAIL to grasp what is being taught and they never move on in the Spirit because they haven't learned the basics....
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tlambert
Posts:2
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Posted:05/13/2007 6:54 PM |
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Ever heard the old saying, “be careful what you ask for”?
I started this post, and now I would like to finish it.
First of all, I want to thank everyone who had the courage to expose their hearts to the world. Isn’t freedom of speech the best thing about the good ol’ USA??!!
Second, I want to thank those who read my post completely and answered it. For the others who felt compelled to defend Pastor Brent’s position and interpreted my opinion as an attack on BRCC, I apologize. Perhaps I did not communicate as effectively as I should have. All I wanted to know was how people felt about the end of the Gathering.
Third, I’d like to thank everyone who took the opportunity to teach. I have learned a lot during the time since my original post. Here are some of the things I’ve learned:
- It is easy to sit in services and have the Bible read to us, and even interpreted for us.
- It is hard to take the next step. We all need to grow in spiritual maturity and start being the church by educating ourselves. This can be done in a multitude of ways. There is a limitless supply of information on the internet. We can also learn from our friends, family and co-workers by living as a true FDFC and demonstrating it through our actions. We can also learn by meeting with other believers, whether in small groups or one-on-one. Pastors aren’t a direct conduit to God, nor do they have all of the answers - they are mortals like us all. They’ve just had more academic education than most of us. Their goals are to lead us to Christ and to recharge us in our beliefs from time to time.
- It is easy for us to complain about something being taken away from us.
- It is hard to understand that “it’s not about me”. That means that we truly need to look at decisions from a broader perspective and not be self-centered. BRCC and its pastors would never do something to hurt any of us.
- It is not BRCC’s responsibility to hold our hands during every step of our spiritual life. We need to grow on our own. I really do believe that the best way to learn is through our own life experiences.
- We all need to do what we have heard here at BRCC forever – we need to BE THE CHURCH. We need to crawl out of that “comfortable” place and become MISSIONARIES. We need to move from students and become teachers and leaders.
Finally, I want to apologize to everyone who felt any pain from my original post. I certainly didn’t intend that, but I realize that it happened, and I am truly sorry for that.
That said, I am still happy that we had this journey, and I hope that we all have learned through this experience. I certainly have. Thanks for your time.
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kb4ygo
Posts:1
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Posted:05/20/2007 7:01 PM |
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For some time, I have felt that something is going to happen at BRCC. Pastor Dave made a point that churches in their time in history, where we are, tend to get complacent and stagnant. As with any organization, whether it be a church or business, change will happen and I am convinced that BRCC does not want to become a dead church and because of that, change is inevitable.
I have been trying to feel the pulse of the OWNERS of BRCC and I believe that there is a significant change about to happen. I believe that BRCC is on the verge of becoming THE CHURCH that is known for changed lives. I believe that if we just be patient, that we are going to be right in the middle of a time where marriages are going to be healed, the sick will be made well, people addicted to drugs, alcohol, immorality and other problems will be free. When this happens, you are going to see a move of God like this town has not seen for a long time. And you are going to be right in the middle of it. There are other churches in San Antonio that are heading the same direction.
Now, here is what I suggest. Use this time to search your heart and ask God where you fit in the big picture. Do not get in too big a hurry. What is coming is going to be big. Yes, this church seems to be geared toward the unchurched and it is working. The people who show up on Wednesday’s are the ones that are going to usher this all in. You are the core and any church can not exist with out its core. If you just give this a try, I believe that your efforts are going to be rewarded with many people being saved and lives changed.
As to the Gathering, this is being replaced for I believe 8 weeks by video by the Son of Dr. Charles Stanley. Dr. Stanley is the pastor of First Baptist Atlanta and is a renown man of God. His son is following in his dads footsteps and is well respected. I believe that it is going to be very good. Before the study, there will be supper served and there will be time of sharing and fellowship around a meal. If you were here back , what a couple of years or so ago, we did this, (supper). It was fun and the church grew because of it.
I also was concerned about the change, but I now believe that this is the start of the next move of God in BRCC and I want to be RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. This is going to be fun.
Ray C
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| Hawkeye (guest) |
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Posted:05/21/2007 9:14 PM |
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I read that there would be a Dr. Charles Stanley video study group.
I just looked him up on the internet and his " 30 Life Principals" were right on! I am already eager to learn more!!!!
I was wondering when the series would start. I tried to look it up on this site under Gatherings and News-events but I didn't see it?
Can you tell me the starting date and if childcare is available?
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keliset
Posts:2
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Posted:05/21/2007 9:35 PM |
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Peace to all. Your salvation will not come through Pastor Brent or any of the other Pastors. You must openly seek God. You too are brothers and sisters in Christ when you believe. The Pastors can guide us and lead us to the water but they can not force us to drink it. The time is now! The message is in the Bible and being shared by the wisdom and experience the Pastors have on this. Let us pray for and with them to remain strong and endure during this time. Furthermore, step out of this earthly plane by praying for the Spirit to allow you to see what it is they have been commissioned to share with you--the profound and radical message of The Kingdom--seek, and you will find.
Things that make you go "hmmm"...
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| slightfoot (guest) |
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Posted:05/21/2007 10:01 PM |
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So will it be Charles Stanley or Andy Stanley's video teachings?
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