This is a MODERATED Forum. Your post may have to be approved before it is posted. In order to post a new topic, you must be registered and logged in. The links to register or log in are at the bottom of any page on this website. Although we often allow controversial topics to be posted, we urge you to follow the spirit of Matthew 5:23-25, Matthew 18:15-22, and Ephesians 4:29-32. We reserve the right to remove posts we feel are offensive.
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| Author |
| |
Messages |
Sort: |
|
gfike
Posts:234
|
|
Posted:03/23/2006 2:49 PM |
|
This is an email that came from Blake:
-------------------
Greetings highly esteemed BRCC Pastors! I am so appreciative for the opportunity to submit the following inquiry regarding Biblical Scripture. Before I present my question, I would ask that you indulge me by first reading a brief description as to why I have the question.
My name is Blake Feuge. I have been a Christian since I was a teenager. This was not an easy endeavor as I am the only child of a single mom who is absolutely not a Christian. My mother is an intellectual with many advanced degrees and she can tell you in clear, precise terms a host of information on a wide variety of topics from World History, Napoleon, Politics, Environmental Issues, Economics, Shakespeare, etc. She is extremely well read and has read the Bible as literature many more times than I. My husband, another intellectual, also struggles with his faith, along with most of his family.
It is my heart’s desire to attend Seminary. I have completed my admissions interview at Austin Presbyterian Seminary in Austin. My husband, mother, and extended family support this decision and goal but more for the “education for the sake of education” value than for any potential Spiritual benefits of seminary.
Personally, I have accepted the faith portion of being a Christian. Meaning, I read the Bible and choose to believe its verity based on a conscience decision to have faith. I believe in the Trinity because of faith. Some issues such as the exact nature and history of Noah’s Ark or the Garden of Eden or even the Virgin Birth I am not sure of for certain but I don’t let my not knowing for sure burden the strength of my faith. They are just bigger questions that God knows the answers to and I am fine by that.
BUT, this is not all about me, hardly. My mother, my husband, and, very likely, the greater world (i.e, the intellectual skeptics) out there wants answers. Hard answers. They want to know as much of the specifics as possible and they wrestle with the questions and agonize about Biblical Scripture and so often just choose NOT to believe because it is easier to stay agnostic or atheist than try to grasp whether the Bible is fact, myth or a combination.
Here enter two books that my mother has read and recommends. Please know I pass on her recommendations with caution. After she read these Christian books, she remains an unchristian (agnostic, atheist, I’m not sure which) and uses these books to back-up and confirm her unbelief. I read the two books I am about to mention and if anything, they seem to me to muddy the waters even more regarding authentic faith and the verity of Biblical Scripture. The God We Never Knew by Marcus J. Borg and What You Don’t Have to Believe to Be a Christian by George M. Ricker (a former professor at Austin Presbyterian Seminary! My mother’s copy is even signed by the author himself.).
Gosh, please forgive my lengthy introduction. Following are just a few exerts from the aforementioned books from which my question is based:
On Seminary, Jesus and how Jesus viewed Himself:
Marcus Borg writes on p. 25: “Seminary also introduced me to the historical study of Jesus and Christian origins. I learned from my professors and the readings they assigned that Jesus almost certainly was not born of a virgin, did not think of himself as the Son of God, and did not see his purpose as dying for the sins of the world.” (Emphasis mine)
On the Resurrection of Christ:
Borg on p. 93 “We do not know whether the resurrection of Jesus involved an empty tomb or something happening to the physical body. Of course, if we read the resurrection stories in the gospels literally, it did….Yet it is not clear that we should read these stories literally…Thus Easter need not involve the claim that God supernaturally intervened to raise the corpse of Jesus from the tomb.” (Emphasis mine)
On the Birth of Jesus:
Borg on p. 101 “The stories of Jesus’ births are myths…Along with most mainline scholars, I do not think these stories report what happened. The virginal conception, the star, the wise men, the birth in Bethlehem where there was no room in the inn, and so forth are not facts of history.
On Salvation:
Borg on p. 162 “For both our encultured sense of sin and guilt and our authentic sin and guilt, the meaning of salvation as forgiveness is ‘You are accepted.’ This is one of the central meanings of grace in the Christian tradition: God accepts us just as we are. No ‘if’ statements follow…such as if we truly repent, if we truly believe, and so on.
And on p. 169 he continues that one mistake people make as when one “…sees faith within the framework of requirements. [It is a mistake to believe that] what God wants from us (in return for which we get salvation) is faith. Here faith becomes a ‘work,’ something we do that makes us right with God.”
Now on to Prof. Ricker’s Book:
Doesn’t the title just get you right away? What You Don’t Have to Believe to Be a Christian I mean all we need in this world is less faith, huh? Anyways, following the title are several chapters of what we don’t need to believe to be true, hence making it “easier” to believe the Christian faith/tenets:
Chapter 1: The Bible as the Word of God
Chapter 2: Adam and Eve (Basically are described in the book as characters)
Chapter 3: God Speaking
Chapter 4: The Miracles of Moses
Chapter 5: Angels
Chapter 6: Virgin Birth
Chapter 7: The Miracles
Chapter 8: The Blood of Jesus
Chapter 9: Jesus’ Descent into Hell
Chapter 10: The Resurrection and Ascension
Chapter 11: The Coming Again
Chapter 12: Life After Death
So my question is as follows: if these intellectual, self professing Christian authors are writing these books and the intellectual skeptics are reading them, getting watered-down faith and then coming to you and me and saying, “You don’t really believe Jesus was born of a virgin, do you?” “You don’t really believe the Bible is all factual and true do you?” And “You don’t really believe that you have to have faith in Jesus to have eternal life do you?” along with a plethora of other questions that I imagine you pastors at BRCC have been approached with numerous times over the years, what do we say?
Please, equip us to answer the questions the world has with intelligent, well-thought out responses that reveal a thoughtful consideration of historical data, research, and truth so that the Word of God and the reality of His Son will not be compromised or mocked.
Thank you
-------------------------------
Long questions like these necessitate long answers, thus: longer preparation.... Keep checking!
|
|
gfike
Posts:234
|
|
Posted:03/25/2006 2:17 PM |
|
Several points in their writings contradict clear scriptures such as:
1 Corinthians 15:1-8
"Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
"For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born."
There is a group of scholars called the Jesus Seminar which meets yearly to vote on which passages of the gospel they believed were "accurate." By what criteria do they choose which are true? None really; they decide on the basis of their biases which ones they want to believe are genuine.
2 Timothy 3:7 describes them as "ever learning but never able to acknowldege the truth."
more later
Pastor George
|
|
gfike
Posts:234
|
|
Posted:06/09/2006 10:04 AM |
|
|
You will be interested to know that Pastor Dave is going to address several of these issues in his upcoming series on the Davinci Code (June 24/25, July 1/2 & 8/9). He will share with us how to discuss the issues in an understnading way with our seeking or skeptical friends.
|
|
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
ActiveForums 3.0
|
|