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wittygood
Posts:1
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Posted:05/24/2007 1:52 PM |
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I became a member of BRCC about seven months ago, and I have always been on the fence about believing in the once saved always saved theology. I didn't think it was too big of a deal; if you're saved, then you're saved, and who are we to judge the heart of a person anyway? I can say I can't believe that a person who continues their addiction to smoking is in the same boat as a murderer who continues murdering, and that a person in that situation, even if they had previously accepted Christ as their Savior, would enter heaven if they are unrepented of their sins, especially a sin as horrible as murder. It has recently come up in conversations between my boyfriend and I, and he thinks it is very important that I believe this theology, especially if I am a member of BRCC.
I believe if your heart is in the right place, and if you are aware of your sin and have the heart to change, then you are saved. I cannot imagine that if someone says they believe in Christ but continue deliberately in their sin without repentance or the heart to change, that they will receive the gift of Salvation. I have studied this before and have heart both views, and I absolutely cannot come to a decision about what I believe. It is hard for me to ignore some verses, or take them out of context and "read between the lines." It says what it says, loud and clear, and why would I question what the Bible says directly and so plainly?
James 2: 14, 19-22
"What good is it if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?... You believe that God is one. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the alter? You see that faith was active along with his works, and his faith was completed by the works."
Hebrews 10:26
"If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sin."
Philippians 2:10
"Work out your faith with fear and trembling."
It seems as though the Bible contradicts itself. I never enjoyed talking about this subject and usually ignore it if it comes up, because it leads me to doubt God more than anything. I don't know what to believe. One verse says it doesn't matter what we do, we are all made right by the blood of Jesus, our sins are by our flesh but are not apart of us, and then another verse says we cannot be forgiven if we continue to sin over and over again, that it is like not accepting his forgivness in the first place.
Is it really that important that I absolutely agree with either? I hate doubting and I hate to think I might believe the wrong thing. There are so many good arguments for both sides, and well as verses straight from the Bible, just as they are.
Why should I believe that once a person accepts Christ's sacrifice, he cannot choose to deliberately leave Christ. I believe Christ's love is always present, as is his forgivness, but it is our part to accept that, and show by our lifestyle that we are living with him and in him.
I'm so confused.
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gfike
Posts:237
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Posted:05/24/2007 7:03 PM |
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I will not presume to exhaustively answer a question about which whole books have been written. I'll just suggest a few readings for you and comment on a couple of your points.
First of all, one of your texts, Phil. 2:12, needs to be seen both in its immediate context and in the context of the whole chapter:
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."
Notice that verse 12 sounds like their behavior is not at issue. They were living exemplary lives of obedience.
Second, it is their "salvation" that is to be "worked out" - not their "faith." "Work out" does not mean "work off" - that is, pay God back in good works for what He paid for you in the cross. Titus 3:4-7 says:
"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, NOT BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUS THINGS WE HAD DONE, BUT BECAUSE OF HIS MERCY. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us GENEROUSLY through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life."
"Work out" really means "work it from the INSIDE to the OUTSIDE."
Third, verse 13 tells us where the desire and the power to live righteous lives comes from - from God and not from ourselves.
To get a good idea of how God looks at our sins - and the sins of those better AND worse than us, I recommend Philip Yancey's book, WHAT'S SO AMAZING ABOUT GRACE. A quote on the back cover is: "There's nothing we can do to make God love us more. There's nothing we can do to make God love us less." Here's a link to the book:
http://www.amazon.com/Whats-So-Amazing-About-Grace/dp/0310213274
I will try to answer a few more of your points, but right now my head hurts! Maybe some of my pastor colleagues can weigh in.
Often, what appears contradictory is settled as you read a section of scripture in its context - which could be a few paragraphs or perhaps a few chapters. For instance, most of Paul's letters unfold a theological truth (Ephesians 1-3) and then spell out behavioral implications from that truth (Ephesians 4-6).
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| feeling the same (guest) |
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Posted:08/17/2007 6:23 PM |
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I feel like this at times. I have called on christ but then sometimes the devil attackes and leave me saying am i realy save or what is going on. Then I read some areas that says about sin and a feel even worse. But then I get down and just pray and ask for the lords guidence and forgiveness and just move on. Is this right or whats the right thing to do. An please do recamend the recovery ministy reply please ... Thanks
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